Dermal Ridges can happen

The Onion Mountain Soil arrived, and this is the first test. Hope you enjoy this little experiment. :)

1. Water Heated to 100 Degrees

2. Plaster of Paris mixed thick (just like Matt said to)

3. Plaster poured into the Arch portion of the cast - no splash casting.

3. Air Temperature 75 degrees, Humidity is at 87%

4. Measurement of the Dry Track: 9 inches long by 3 inches wide.

I decided to accept a challenge. Why not go ahead and test the theory of Matt Crowley. If these "Artifacts" (which I call "Crowley lines") will happen in the circumstances he has noted - I should see these Crowley lines in this cast. So. The work began

I poured out a pan full of the Onion Mountain Soil -- First off let me tell you, this soil is just as powdery and lightweight as the Tricalcium Phosophate I used in my first set of experiments - but dont let that fool you. Unlike the Tricalcium Phosphate - I could apply my bodyweight to this soil - heck I could stand on one foot and only get to a maximum depth of about 2 inches. I find this curious.

It may have something to do with the Clay found in the soil (which is one of a few things Volcanic Ash turns into as it breaks down) But lets be very clear about this - if you took this sample to have it analyzed, it would not come back with a reading that says it is Volcanic Ash. Volcanic Ash breaks down very fast - in as little as 2 years if it is exposed to the elements, I was told even faster by a Volcanologist currently working on Mt. Saint Helens for the USGS, if Ash is on the side of a hill, or a Mountain side. I will get into the actual properties of the soil at a later date, as I am waiting for some other very specific information about this soil. I am trying to dot all of my i's and crossing all my t's.

Ok for the pictures. I did exactly what Matt Crowley discusses. My results..I do have Dermal Ridges and Flexion Creases. While the dermals are very faint they are there. The dermals on a human female are much smaller and more difficult to recover than that of a human male. These casts are of my feet - and I am (I guarantee you) a human female.

Measurement of the track prior to casting:

These numbers remained unchanged in the finished cast - there was no expanision.. I can not account for this. I expected to see some expansion - but I had none.

I was unable to duplicate Matt's work. I did exactly as I was instructed, and I could not do it. I have the feeling it may have everything to do with the casting agent. But, something we need to consider is this. Matt's work for the most part was in Volcanic ash - and Im sure that ash moved much easier under the weight of the casting agent. This soil is not the same - at all. If you look at the full foot cast you will see a depression in the soil (in the arch area) - that is where the casting agent made first contact with the soil - and it abruptly stops. Another thing to consider - soil is not Volcanic Ash. There is a big difference between the two.

My work is still ongoing - and if I can answer any questions I will be more than happy to. I will not guess - or make assumptions. I am not saying this is the final word on anything - and I am open to any and all suggestions. I am not doing this to trash Matt Crowley or his work, I just want answers and I want the truth, just as many of you do.

So, I think its pretty safe to say - based on this test: Dermal Ridges and Flexion Creases are possible in the soil from the Logging Road of Onion Mountain.

Dermal Ridges, Flexion Creases and Casting Artifacts, Part 5

*Photo's by Chris Buntenbah, Wildlife Photographer*

This will be my final post on this issue, until I have the actual soil from Onion Mountain (I hear sometime in July :) ) I got a little off track and did not post the final casting test.

This test was done differently.

Casting Cement: Plaster of Paris (mixed thick)

Water: Heated to 80 degrees (in an attempt to duplicate conditions at casting site, and to see if I could force expansion)

Substrate: Tricalcium Phosphate heated to 80 degrees ( in an attempt to duplicate conditions at casting site, and to see if I could force expansion)

I finally have artifacts. But, these artifacts are curious as they are not "Crowley Lines".

On the outside of my foot - there is a very prounounced Y-shaped crease - It's my opinion, that was caused by the casting cement, ok explanation here. When I heated the water and put in the Plaster of Paris, I instantly noticed how fast this was actually thickening up. When I poured it into the cast with my hand - there was little to no flow, I tried to push it a bit with my fingertips gently, but to do so would have ruined the area of the track. So, what you are seeing is from adding in additional Plaster of Paris above this line and to the side. I did see this very lightly with the test in 70 degree water, but not to this extent, which tells me, it has to be the heated water. Now, if I were to see that after casting a track of unknown origin, I would know it was not a flexion crease -- as flexion creases follow the natural movement of the foot - this does not.

Ok check out the picture

I did not heat my water above 80 degrees. As stated above, I tried to simulate actual conditions or a good medium - I was told it was very dry and hot that day. I do not know what the actual temperature was, or humidity. But, Im pretty sure water heated to 100 degrees was not used for the Onion Mountain cast (but I could be wrong).

So, it is possible to get dermal ridges and flexion creases using Plaster of Paris, in a substrate with the consistency and feel of ash, as I suspected.

So, are all of the dermal ridges and flexion creases in the Onion Mountain cast simply "artifacts"? I dont think we can say that -- I think they should be evaluated as Jimmy Chilcutt has done. But I have noticed the introduction of heat and moisture brings out more detail. As some of the best casts where when I heated water, heated the substrate and soaked my foot.

But, thats just my opinion. :)

John Green Part 2

Question #2. On the Willow Creek-China Flat DVD set, in your speech, you talk about Bob Titmus. You say, if it had not been for Bob Titmus we wouldn't have the Patterson footage, etc. Could you please elaborate on that? And for those of us new to this field, maybe tell us something about Mr. Titmus?

John Green:

Very briefly, Bob Titmus was by far the most competent of the people who took up the search for Bigfoot/sasquatch in the 1950's and he devoted the rest of his life to it, accomplishing far more than anyone else, aside from Roger Patterson's lucky encounter." He is not well known because he did not seek publicity or write a book, but you can find a lot about him on the internet.

Re the movie, without Bob the chain of events that led to Roger being where he was when he took it would never have started, and wouldhave been broken off a couple more times along the way. Here are the specific steps: If Bob had not shown Jerry Crew how to make a cast the"Bigfoot" story might never have hit the news, and I would not have gone to Bluff Creek.

If Bob, as a taxidermist, had not been the best-qualified person who had examined the tracks and pronounced them genuine, I would not have made a detour to see him, and when he later found the tracks of a different individual he would not have written to me and I would not have made a second trip the Bluff Creek and seen a set of really convincing tracks. If the events above had not taken place I would not have submitted to a Canadian magazine an article on the footprints and other evidence which although rejected later evolved into an article in a different publication by a different author that someone sent to British zoologist Ivan Sanderson.

If it were not for that article Sanderson would not have done some research and written articles of his own in "True" magazine, and if Roger had not read Sanderson's articles it is unlikely that he would ever have heard of "Bigfoot", let alone photographed one. .


To be continued...

Dermal Ridges, Flexion Creases and Casting Artifacts, Part 4

*Picture of my foot, after stepping in clay and casted with Plaster of Paris*

Mr. Crowley is of the impression I dont understand what he's talking about - so forever more I will refer to his "artifacts" as "Crowley Lines". See, I know what Im talking about :)


My tests deal directly with IF dermal ridges and flexion creases are obtainable using Plaster of Paris, as the original tests delt directly with the Onion Mountain Cast.

I have no doubt "Crowley Lines" are possible - but I do not believe my results are artifacts - as the clay mold of my foot does show the dermal ridge pattern flow of my foot - and flexion creases. I will attempt better pictures of this cast made from the clay impression of my foot.

I have shown it is possible to obtain dermals and flexion creases using Plaster of Paris -- and this was the cementing agent used in the Onion Mountain Cast.

I have to admit quickly.. When I first saw this Tricalcium Phosphate - I didnt think I would even be able to get a print to hold up in it. It's very lightweight and powdery, and if I didnt warn you before *WARNING* use appropriate safety equipment... I am still coughing this stuff up after 5 days. If you ever attempt to use this particular item as a substrate - please be careful !!

Ok, next cast test: I put my foot once again into the dry Tricalcium Phosphate. I then covered the pan in which the track was in, and heated my water to 70 degrees.

I then added Plaster of Paris to the water, and applied the casting cement to the track. This test is meant to discover if it is simply the water temperature that can bring out more dermal ridges and flexion creases and create the expansion, or if it is a combination of warm water and moist soil.

Results. No remarkable change in expansion from the previous casts. While there was no change in expansion, there were changes noted. Using this method allowed for results very similar to soaking my foot for an hour. I also noticed one set of "creases" in my big toe, that are there, this is not a casting artifact - this crease is visible to the naked eye.

Is the water being heated to 70 degrees the reason for this crease being visible? That was the only difference between this cast and others. But, I dont know for sure.

So, do I know anymore than I did -- not really.. This I have the feeling will be a very long process, but - I think in the end it will be well worth it. Has any of my work disproven the work done by Matt Crowley - no not yet, but -- he hasnt answered my original question to date yet either.. Im not done with my work, as I have been challenged - and I never turn down a challenge !

Am I doing this for "Fame or Glory"? Do I need a "feather in my bigfoot cap"? Nope, in all honesty, I couldn't care less about that. I am interested in learning - I love to work on a good mystery and evaluate the possibilities and work on the outcome. I am by nature a "problem solver". I enjoy these kinds of challenges, however, not everyone does. I get satisfaction from the work and the outcome whether positive or negative. Life is full of mysteries -- and it's fun sometimes to consider the possibilities. :)


To be continued....

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Dermal Ridges, Flexion Creases and Casting Artifacts, Part 3

The following pictures are of my foot.

No laughing at my foot :)

Pictures (hopefully) will be non weightbearing -- then weightbearing, in an attempt to prove my point.

It's my newbie opinion that the "folding" on the outside of the Onion Mountain Cast, could very well be this folding of the skin and tissues of the foot when pressure is applied. If you take one of your fingers and run it down the length of your foot on the outer edge, from heel to toe just below the ankle bone, you will feel a kind flat area, then a fatty area just below that. I think it's very possible that's the area being seen in casts.

I can only guess as to why my results, with a much lower grade casting agent, were so much different than Tube's.. (Matt Crowley)

I did this with Plaster of Paris, because that is what the Onion Mountain Cast was made with (or so I was told) and I want to be as accurate to the original as possible. So, in my opinion, dermal ridges and flexion creases are possible on this cast - regardless of the casting material used. As I have shown, Plaster of Paris will bring out these features.

Do I know for sure my conclusions are correct?

No, I have no way of knowing that right now.

Do I think Matt Crowley is wrong?

Didnt say that either. I am simply asking a question - how do we know he is right?

I have been impressed with the work of Matt Crowley. I simply want to take it a step further. Just because artifacts do happen - that doesn't make all possible dermal ridges or flexion creases in the Onion Mountain Cast "artifacts." How do we tell the difference? If we simply throw out everything based on his work, how do we know for sure? I say, ask questions - challenge yourself. Matt Crowley's work is important - it shows us what to look for, what may be and what may not be, but, that shouldn't stop the discussion. Researchers have been casting tracks for years - and discovering how to spot hoaxes, so should we throw out every single cast, simply because a hoax was found to have taken place? No, and that would be silly.

No one has all the answers, especially not me, that's why I will keep asking questions even if it means going into areas I have no knowledge of - such as chemicals etc. I am not a geologist or even a scientist, but I do have a working knowledge of what a dermal ridge or a flexion crease is.

I do these tests for my own knowledge. I enjoy learning. I hope we can all learn together. I encourage the readers of this blog to get involved and ask questions.


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Dermal Ridges, Flexion Creases and Casting Artifacts -- Part 2

This second post deals with the castings done after my foot was soaked for 1 hour, and dried with a hand towel to remove any excess water from my foot.

*Note the marked difference in the size and number of Flexion Creases.

*Measurements before track was cast: 9 inches in length, 3 inches in width.

*Measurements after cast was dry - 8 3/4 inches in Length and 2 1/2 inches wide.

The same Tricalcium Phosphate was used as the substrate, and Plaster of Paris (mixed thin) was the casting agent used, water was room temperature - roughly 65 degrees.

After soaking my foot, I noted dermal ridges on the toes and heel, but not as pronounced. The flexion creases are much more numerous and more pronounced. I am not suprised the cast was actually smaller - instead of larger, as water causes shrinkage and wrinkling of skin.

What I found the most interesting, however, was the side of the foot where I had noticed this "line" around the heel of the foot. If it's not seen well in this picture, there is a fold in the back of the heel that is much harder - and is not from rolling of the plaster of paris, as it is in line with the "line" (I will discuss this more in future posts).























To be continued :)
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John Green

Photo of John Green


When I was younger than I am today, I remember the very first face and name, I could associate with the field of Bigfoot Research. I remember it was a black and white photo, of a man who looked just as down to earth, friendly and honest as my father.. I also remember he was holding what looked to me at that age, a very big foot - this was the first time I had ever seen one of those too.. Never did I imagine, I would one day be involved in this very search myself, and exchanging friendly emails with the man in that photo.

John Green has graciously agreed to, and has answered questions I have sent to him via this wonderful thing called the internet, and allowed follow up questions if asked. I am spreading these questions out over a series of posts. Why you ask? Well sure I could just post them all at once, but I think his words are important. I am guilty of skimming an interview looking for what I want to know, and leaving the rest.

I just hope you all enjoy this as much as I have.

Question: I have read many times, you yourself have never had a sighting, that being the case, what drives you in the pursuit for this undocumented North American Primate?

Answer: Basically, I am trying to find out what makes the huge footprints, which I have seen. Beyond that, I have enjoyed participating in such an interesting area of research.




To be continued.....


*Photo of John Green provided by Rick Noll*